Amna Nawaz:
A Supreme Court ruling this week cleared the way for the Trump administration to end Temporary Protected Status for Haitians and Syrians, leaving thousands of refugees suddenly without legal immigration status.
One of the states that could face the biggest impact is Ohio, where more than 10,000 Haitian migrants have settled. The state’s Republican Governor Mike DeWine has called the move — quote — “a mistake.”
For more on the ruling and what it means for communities in his state, I am joined now by Governor Mike DeWine.
Governor, welcome back to the “News Hour.” Thanks for joining us.
Gov. Mike Dewine (R-OH):
Good to be back. Thank you very much.
Amna Nawaz:
So, as you know, revoking TPS is a big part of the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown. A court now says they do have the authority to do that. Why do you think that’s a mistake?
Gov. Mike Dewine:
Well, I think the policy is wrong. The policy is wrong.
What I’m seeing specifically in Springfield and in Ohio, you talked about a number of Haitians who have come in. You’re seeing in Springfield a city that is coming back. It’s been coming back for the last few years. And, frankly, one of the reasons it’s come back is because of the Haitians who have been there to fill jobs that were simply not being filled at all.
And that’s what the employers will tell you. That’s what the mayor — the mayor issued another statement yesterday, and he’s consistently said that these Haitians are buying homes, they’re opening businesses, they’re working, and they’re trying to — some of them raised raise their family there. They’re contributing to the community.
That’s what the mayor of Springfield is saying. And my observation is, he’s absolutely right. So when all of these individuals who are there with TPS — now, not all the Haitians. Some of them have other legal status, but a significant number of them are under the TPS, which, of course, means, with this ruling, of course — now, and I don’t — look, I don’t argue with the Supreme Court’s decision.
They were interpreting a statute that was written by Congress, which basically says that the courts cannot interfere with that decision, that designation, such as the administration made. My point is about policy. And I have consistently said this.
This is bad for Ohio. This is a job killer for Ohio. It’s a job killer for Springfield. It’s not good for our state.
Amna Nawaz:
Can I put to you, Governor, what we have heard from the administration on this, which is something we heard Stephen Miller of the White House say yesterday when asked about whether or not it is safe for Haitians to go back to Haiti. Here’s what he said.
Stephen Miller, White House Deputy Chief of Staff: The fact that there might be pockets of Haiti where there’s higher crime rates, guess what? There’s pockets of Chicago with crime rates just as high, right? There’s pockets of cities like St. Louis with crime just as high, pockets of Los Angeles crime just as high.
It has never been the case that having communities that have high crime rates is a basis for asylum. Never has been. It never will be.
Amna Nawaz:
So, Governor, the White House says it’s safe for Haitians to go back. And they also say this was meant to be a temporary status. It’s in the name and it’s been in some cases extended for years and years. What’s your response to what they’re saying?
Gov. Mike Dewine:
Well, to say it’s safe to go to Haiti is absurd. And to say compare it to Chicago I think is — it doesn’t make any sense at all.
Look, I have a lot of contacts in Haiti. We work with people in Haiti. We have a school down there, my wife and I do. And we have traveled there 20, 25 times, and we have a lot of contact there. It is worse today in Haiti than it’s ever been.
It never was very good. The only time, frankly, it was good is when the U.S. Marines were down there, and they did a phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal job. But the situation is just absolutely terrible. People are killed every single day. The gangs run — basically run a good part of the country.
And we’re talking now in Port-au-Prince. We’re talking about the Capitol. You cannot fly into Port-au-Prince with a U.S. carrier because a U.S. carrier will not go into Port-au-Prince. Why? Because the gangs shoot at the planes when they come in. No, it’s a horrible, horrible situation.
So nobody who knows anything about Haiti can say that the situation is improved. In fact, it’s gotten a lot worse. Good evidence of that is the Haitians who I have talked to who knew that they would have to leave or thought they might have to leave. There wasn’t anybody I have talked to that said they were going back to Haiti. They’re going to try to find some — anyplace else to go to where they can work and support their family, but they’re not going back there.
Amna Nawaz:
Governor, if I can ask you as well, you mentioned the mayor in Springfield. My colleague William Brangham was on the ground there a little over a year ago speaking to folks in the community. He met with Haitians who had settled there.
He talked to some companies who said they were very happy to have people fill the jobs and to fill communities that had been somewhat abandoned. But the mayor also said at the time that services were being taxed, right? People needed some support, language translation services in the schools and the hospitals and the clinics.
And he said it was stretching resources. So what’s the balance there to you?
Gov. Mike Dewine:
Well, look, that’s true. It was a big influx within a relatively short period of time. And we have worked with the mayor to try to try to help them.
So, certainly, schools have Haitian children in there, and that is an additional cost if they don’t speak the language. But the interesting thing about the employers, despite the fact that there was a language barrier, despite the fact there’s a culture barrier, employers were hiring them, and they were hiring them because they had jobs to fill.
And there’s a multiplier effect. Some of these companies told me, we were able to put on a second shift because of the Haitians. Some had told me that we’re able to take on bigger projects, sell more goods, whatever it is that they were selling. That has a multiplier effect in the economy.
Because of that economic activity, other people will get jobs because of that. So, yes, it is a challenge that the city of Springfield has taken on. They’ve done a very, very good job. But I think if you ask the businesspeople, if you ask the mayor what is going to happen, the answer is, when these individuals who no longer have TPS status, when they don’t have TPS status, they cannot be employed.
So, they’re not — they’re going to be unemployed, and many of them have already left. Some of them the — rest of them will have to leave at some point and try to find some country where they can actually work.
I mean, the big picture for Ohio is this. We are a red-hot state. We are bringing in companies all the time to Ohio. The real question today is, do we have the people to fill them? So we’ve put a great deal of effort on education, on job training.
We have put a great deal of effort on career tech, as well as focusing on colleges, because they need all of the above. But without immigrants coming in, it’s going to be hard. It’s going to be harder for us to fill these jobs. If you look at the increase in population in Ohio — and we are now going up for the first time in a number of years.
If you look at that, probably three-fourths of that is a direct result of immigrants. If you look at some of the people who are…
Amna Nawaz:
Governor, well, there’s so much more to talk about around this.
Gov. Mike Dewine:
Yes, I’m sorry.
Amna Nawaz:
No, I really appreciate your time.
Gov. Mike Dewine:
Yes.
Amna Nawaz:
And I hope you’ll come back and join us as we follow the impact. We’ll have to leave it there for now.
That is Republican Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio joining us tonight.
Thank you, sir.
Gov. Mike Dewine:
Thank you.
