Amna Nawaz:
Hundreds of Afghans who helped the United States’ war effort in Afghanistan and who are detained now in Qatar may soon be sent back to Afghanistan or to the Democratic Republic of the Congo by the U.S. State Department.
However, the DRC is in the midst of its own deep humanitarian crisis, with millions displaced by war and now seeking refuge outside their country. The push to send the more than 1,000 Afghans elsewhere comes after President Trump halted the Afghan resettlement program more than a year ago.
That program offered help to Afghans who faced threats after they aided the Americans during the 20-year war.
For perspective on this and what could come next, we turn now to Shawn VanDiver, a Navy veteran and president of AfghanEvac, an organization which aids in resettlement efforts.
Shawn, welcome back to the show.
I know you briefed members of Congress on this potential plan a short while ago. What did you say to them and what was their reaction about this plan?
Shawn VanDiver, AfghanEvac:
Well, thank you so much for having me on today.
I talked to staff from — a bipartisan, bicameral group of staff from all the relevant committees to this, and people were pretty shocked. People are shocked, one, that folks are being sent — or that the State Department is planning, even considering sending these folks who stood beside us and who believed in the idea of America to a war zone, to the Democratic Republic of Congo.
They were shocked that these folks are still stuck there and haven’t been able to make it to the United States, in particular because the camp is 42 percent children, and there’s 150-plus family members of active duty military.
And I’m happy to say that we got a lot of interest in running a bill or two that would help Afghans both here at home and abroad in Camp As Sayliyah to get to safety.
Amna Nawaz:
Camp As Sayliyah, we should point out, is in Qatar, where they have been currently held now for many, many months. I do want to put to you, part of what the Trump administration says here is their concern. They say that some people in the resettlement program were not thoroughly vetted. That’s part of the reasoning for this potential plan.
What do you say to those concerns?
Shawn VanDiver:
I would invite people within the Trump administration to go to AfghanEvac/Vetting to see how much extraordinary vetting happened. In fact, the Biden administration didn’t lessen the vetting standards. They didn’t reduce the vetting standards. They kept President Trump’s enhanced vetting, a big thing from his first administration.
And, in fact, they built on it. They leveraged A.I. They leveraged all sorts of classified tools. They built out a pre-travel vetting effort to make sure that everybody who came through the Enduring Welcome pipeline, which ended up being the safest, most secure, legal immigration pathway in history, they made sure that everybody who even left Afghanistan was already vetted and medically screened before they even got to Qatar, the Philippines, Germany or Albania for even more vetting.
And I just say that they’re either lying or they’re poorly informed. And I have suspicions as to which it is.
Amna Nawaz:
The more than 1,000 people or so who are currently waiting include interpreters, folks who helped the U.S. war effort over those 20 years, as you mentioned, their families.
Tell us about the conditions that they have been living in. And if you’re in touch with them, what are they telling you as all this plays out?
Shawn VanDiver:
Oh, goodness.
Well, look, I’m in touch with them every day. I’m in a big group chat with a lot of these folks and their family members and another group chat with the active duty military service members whose families are stuck there. And to a person, one, they’re pissed off that the government is even considering sending them anywhere but the United States of America.
Number two, the kids are very worried, right? We’re seeing a lot of advocacy from the youth, from the 14-to-25-year-old age range. And we’re seeing them be very powerful voices. We’re also seeing a lot of folks that have been there for a while losing hope.
People are devastated. The people that are in the military are losing a lot of faith in their country. But Afghans still believe in the idea of America. They still want — know that the American dream is real and they want to get here. And so we’re hoping that, by shining some light on this heinous plan, that we can get them here to safety, those that are able to clear.
There are a few folks at the camp who cannot clear. And that’s who the State Department should be focused on helping get somewhere else.
Amna Nawaz:
If these families were to return to Afghanistan, what would await them there?
Shawn VanDiver:
Well, certain death for many. There are women who served in the military and fought the Taliban, fought our war for us. There’s a lot of people who the Taliban would like to have retribution against.
And, look, it’s not as though the Taliban is sitting at the airport with a folding table and some chairs and a green visor checking resumes and exactly how long they worked for us. No, now that they have been at this camp for years, they have a relationship with the United States, even more so than before. So it’s going to be a lot harder for them to hide.
And, frankly, it’s a violation of the promise of America that is squarely on the shoulders of President Trump, Stephen Miller and Marco Rubio.
Amna Nawaz:
Shawn, can I just ask you to take a step back here? You yourself are a veteran. You have made this advocacy your life’s work over the last several years. You’re in close contact with a lot of these families.
If this plan ends up going through, and I should ask you if you think it is inevitable, what does that say to you about the U.S., the place it holds? And what are the other options for these families?
Shawn VanDiver:
Thank you for asking that.
The message that this is sending is that the U.S.’ promises are temporary and conditional and dependent on who is sitting behind the Resolute Desk. And that just cannot be. You’re right. I have made this my life’s work. I have given up a career. I have given up a lot.
But, look, it is so important. This is — Afghanistan was not my war. I didn’t serve in it. But this is my fight because it’s a fight about the very promise and idea of America. And we have got to make sure that, when people with flags on their shoulders are making promises downrange, that those are checks that can be cashed by the people who are believing us.
I’m irritated. I don’t think that this is going to go through. I think that this work is going to thwart their plan. And we’re going to keep working every day to get in the way every time that they try to cause harm to vulnerable people.
And if folks want to learn more, they can go to AfghanEvac.org/donate if you want to support our efforts. We’re really grateful you’re covering this.
Amna Nawaz:
That is Shawn VanDiver, president of AfghanEvac, joining us tonight.
Shawn, thank you. Good to speak with you.
Shawn VanDiver:
Thank you so much.
